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angry at GOD

 
Picture of jerry gentile
angry at GOD
by jerry gentile - Monday, 2 July 2018, 8:18 PM
 

Long ago was conditioned by the Nuns and church that GOD was not as forgving and everything /or sin was going to be subjected to suffering. No way out.

well i guess I would need to live a perfect life and i have not ergo painnnnnnnnnnn and suffering to mitigate my sins.

I am wondering if anyone shares this mental garbage . 

I am working on finally maybe finding peace and a different church--- this was so powerful a message and now after sooooooo many years I want peace .

Jerry

Picture of Howard Schubiner
Re: angry at GOD
by Howard Schubiner - Monday, 2 July 2018, 8:40 PM
 

Hi Jerry.

I hope some others chime in on this. I was brought up Jewish, so I missed out on a lot of the guilt associated with religion. There is a common belief that Jewish guilt is powerful. In my opinion, it's not true. Jewish guilt is "you didn't call your mother this week." Catholic guilt, by comparison, is much bigger. It can be "you're going to burn in hell for thinking bad thoughts."  Wow!!

I've seen many people who were taught as children that they were "bad" and needed to be perfect. This is a good way to prepare people for physical and emotional pain later in life, due to mind body issues!!

So, I feel for you. I have seen many people who have altered how they view themselves and their childhoods by taking on the work you are now doing. 

Let us know how we can help.

Best, Howard

Picture of Dianna Cunningham
Re: angry at GOD
by Dianna Cunningham - Monday, 2 July 2018, 10:16 PM
 

Jerry and Howard: Boy can I relate to this cause I was raised Catholic!!

There is so much guilt related to our religion it’s truly mind boggling. I left the church many years ago. I think that many churches want to judge but you know Jesus actually did not. Yet the Catholic Church should have been judged when all the priests molested children and yet the church covered it up. I hope I don’t offend anyone that’s Catholic but as a survivor of sexual abuse myself I just couldn’t forgive the church for their role in that debacle.

Guilt contributes to TMS. Find a church that is more forgiving and accepting. Life is way too short to do anything but find peace!

Picture of Tim Hutton
Re: angry at GOD
by Tim Hutton - Monday, 2 July 2018, 11:01 PM
 

Hi Jerry,

A little over 50 years ago (when I was 17) I began my so-called Christian journey with that very same fundamental idea. As a 17-year-old I really had no confidence that my gut instincts were worthy to be followed. It seemed as though the large mass of church authority figures, who surrounded me in my home city, had to be right. They were so much older than I was and had studied for decades and I had only began to inquire into the teachings that were originally provided by Jesus.

I served a two-year mission for the church. I worked exceptionally hard and subsequently advanced within the paradigm of the mission field. This position allowed an opportunity for very detailed study, because we had to travel a lot and I studied often while my companion would drive.

After about 20 months, I began to notice an ever increasing disparity between what was actually taught by my church leaders and what was actually originally quite clearly expressed by Jesus, time and time again.

The internal conflict grew from mild to severe. I expressed my troubling doubts to the mission President, but even then (at about 20 years old) I always maintained that I must just be having what we called “a challenge to my faith” and that my doubts would pass. After all, the church leaders had to be right, I thought.

To make this post a bit shorter, let me just sum it up. After fulfilling my term as a missionary, I was looking forward to coming home, meeting with church leaders and having my doubts intelligently corrected. If the church were true, it would after all, be very advantageous for me. I had already become considered a young leader within the church. That meant better employment opportunities, a good position within a broad broad social environment and basically just a privileged life. I live in the city that is the capital and home of the church.

After meeting with many authorities, my doubts only became larger. Within a few months I requested excommunication from the church. I did this because I wanted to clearly convey to all the people I had helped bring into the church, that after more maturation I had realized that the church did not convey the original intent of the teachings of 1st century Christianity. When I was finally granted excommunication, it was very hard on my social life and family.

The most fundamental disparity was the recognition that Jesus went far, far, far out of his way to mainly express the gracious nature of our relationship to the Creator, not the sin ladened, hell, fire and brimstone, archaic teachings that the church conveyed.

Though I searched for many, many years and even traveled half way around the earth in an effort to discover a community which supported my own intuitive understanding of God’s grace, I never really found one that was rooted and grounded in the simple truths expressed by Jesus, not only by his actual words but by the way he interacted and treated people. 

I have meet several people who I highly regard that have the same views as myself. A wonderful former Carmelite Cloistered nun, a Trappist Monk and Priest, and many, many ministers who found themselves in the same boat as myself. 

It has been good.

The most fundamental idea that Jesus worked hard to convey was the nearly inconceivably gracious nature of that which created us. People who interpreted the gospels and letter in the new testament certainly created a great disservice to the human race, by superimposing on them their own very limited and fear-based complexes upon the scriptures.  Meister Eckhart (13th century German theologian and mystic) expresses this very cleanly in his sermons. Of course, the church accused him of 39 counts of hearsay. Strangely he just all of the sudden came up missing soon after the charges. No one knows the details of his sudden death. Similarly, the church authorities cut the Tongue out of Maximus the confessor, for teaching such gracefulness. When he didn’t let that stop him, he wrote out his teachings. That is, until the church authorities cut his hand off.

Course it was the church leaders who so to it that Jesus was killed, because of the threat he posed to them and the church. Many schoolers today recognize that Jesus was no friend of religion.


Picture of Dianna Cunningham
Re: angry at GOD
by Dianna Cunningham - Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 5:19 PM
 

Beautiful post Tim! Totally understand where you’re coming from!

I think if going to a church helps you then go for it. I know a few folks that said their church really helped them when they had chronic pain. If that’s the case that’s so awesome. I hope everyone reading realizes we’re not here to bash their religion or their concept of God or anything of that nature. I just think that for me and many others organized religion didn’t work out the way we thought it would!

I hope and pray that we all find peace in whichever path we choose.

Tim please continue posting. You’re a rock star!

Picture of Tim Hutton
Re: angry at GOD
by Tim Hutton - Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 6:25 PM
 

Yes, thanks for clearing that up Dianna.

The dynamic we are addressing here on this particular post is one that evokes so much passion within me because it had been the source of so much mental suffering and pain. 

But I certainly do not want to put down any religion. Like you I have watched as a religious life has beautified many, many lives and families that I care about.

I think I went a little overboard on my post.

I appreciate your help and correction.

For me, the one on one connection between myself and my Creator has beautified my life and that of my family.

Thanks again Dianna.

Picture of Don Worthington
Re: angry at GOD
by Don Worthington - Tuesday, 3 July 2018, 10:22 PM
 

While I know we don’t want to turn this forum into a discussion about the shortcomings of religious institutions, there can be no doubt about the negative effects that early religious training has had for many of us on our ability to deal with psychological issues.  I am 83 and have suffered every day of my life from my mother’s insistence that anger is sinful.  Even at this point in life I still feel guilty about being angry with her over this damaging teaching.

 I believe one of the things that is keeping me from resolving my back pain is my inability to express anger.  I always seem to break it down into rationalized parts instead of just feeling it. My wife says she is the only one I get angry with.  I congratulate her because she is the only one I really trust with my feelings. Seems funny that I still need to teach myself to get angry.  For some of us unlearning early religious teachings is a life-long task.


Don Worthington